Presented and produced by Seán Delaney

Theme tune by David Vesey

On this week's programme I bring you the second part of my interview with Paul O'Donnell, Principal of St. Patrick's National School in Slane. Among the topics we discuss on this week's programme are:

• His work with the CPSMA
• Numbers applying for principalship
• Principals acting as gatekeepers
• Challenges of being a principal with full teaching duties
• What schools are for (and a sense of place)
• What inspires him
• Being outdoors in poor weather
• Outdoor education in the United States
• Questions to ask yourself before applying for principalship
• Favourite book, writer

Among the books he recommends are The Art of Thinking Clearly by Rolf Dobelli and Ego is the Enemy by Ryan Holiday on leadership and Messy Maths by Juliet Robertson. He follows Tom Bennett (@tombennett71) and Pasi Sahlberg (@pasi_sahlberg) on Twitter.